Wheel Locks???

[shanta]

What are the best wheel locks out there?

The three types I am looking at are McGard and Gorilla Wheel Locks and the Eurolock.

Eurolock (http://www.concept1.ca/Black%20Tops.htm)

[Blue Devil]

Since the Eurolock is only a cap, what about a combo of the two...McGard or Gorilla with a Eurolock on another plain bolt?

You better protect your new babies!

[Blue Devil]

Oh yeah regarding the cap style locks, I've heard that poor quality ones tend to fail on the wheel so you might need to drill it out (problem if you get a flat on the road).

Never heard of the "Black Top" label before?

[shanta]

Originally posted by Blue Devil
Since the Eurolock is only a cap, what about a combo of the two...McGard or Gorilla with a Eurolock on another plain bolt?



I was thinking about doing a combo of two or all three. I was thinking about using all locking lugs from Gorilla and possibly a McGard or the "Black Top" thing.

Truth be told, if someone really wants to steal the rims they will. Locks will only slow them down. My thinking is make it as complicated as possible, that way I have a chance of catching them in action. Because there is nothing like cold steel on the back of your head :D

[Henry47]

if you're going to use wheel locks, only use ONE set. Any more than that and you're taking a risk that could be avoided. Wheel locks are not made to OEM specifications and are not as strong as OEM. Putting more than one set of locks on one wheel might lead to them getting loose. I've seen it happen before on my friends civic. He replaced ALL his lugs with locks and came to me "henry, theres something wrong with my wheels" so i jacked up his car and his locks were so loose his wheel was almost falling off his car. It turned out that one of them fell off and the three were DANGEROUSLY loose. That's a risk I don't think you should take. Shanta, you are correct if the thieves really want your wheels, they'll get them. Why risk your own safety to slow them down 30 more seconds? BTW, I've heard nothing but good stories about Gorilla. McGard locks tend to strip as I've heard.

[Dr. ///AMG]

I say just put a car cover on the car and nobody will steal your wheels.

LMAO :D U know i kid Henry

[shanta]

Originally posted by Henry47
BTW, I've heard nothing but good stories about Gorilla. McGard locks tend to strip as I've heard.


Cool. I am using Gorilla now on the 500, but I have McGard on the 420. I have been blessed to not strip the McGard.

Seeing how the locks are not as strong I will ony use 1 lock bolt.:D Thanks for the tip!

[shanta]

Originally posted by Dr. ///AMG
I say just put a car cover on the car and nobody will steal your wheels.

LMAO :D U know i kid Henry

ha ha.. I am already planning to do that also, but not because of theives.

[Dr. ///AMG]

I got my locks from the dealer. They pretty nice. Unlike cheap ones that have the lock pattern on the outside (and if u use a "gatorgrip" you can just unscrew it easy) mine has the pattern inside. Good stuff really. 70-80 bucks I paid.

[shanta]

Originally posted by Dr. ///AMG
I got my locks from the dealer. They pretty nice. Unlike cheap ones that have the lock pattern on the outside (and if u use a "gatorgrip" you can just unscrew it easy) mine has the pattern inside. Good stuff really. 70-80 bucks I paid.

That is way too much money for some locks, especially considering my Gorilla Locks were free :D

The dealer's locks are made by McGuar right? If so what you mean by the lock pattern being on the inside? All the McGard's I have seen have the pressed in key thingy, which is on the outside. :confused:

[Henry47]

Originally posted by Dr. ///AMG
I say just put a car cover on the car and nobody will steal your wheels.

LMAO :D U know i kid Henry

hah, it's worked so far, and I live in a pretty GHETTO neighborhood

[Blue Devil]

Originally posted by Henry47
if you're going to use wheel locks, only use ONE set. Any more than that and you're taking a risk that could be avoided. Wheel locks are not made to OEM specifications and are not as strong as OEM. Putting more than one set of locks on one wheel might lead to them getting loose. I've seen it happen before on my friends civic. He replaced ALL his lugs with locks and came to me "henry, theres something wrong with my wheels" so i jacked up his car and his locks were so loose his wheel was almost falling off his car. It turned out that one of them fell off and the three were DANGEROUSLY loose. That's a risk I don't think you should take. Shanta, you are correct if the thieves really want your wheels, they'll get them. Why risk your own safety to slow them down 30 more seconds? BTW, I've heard nothing but good stories about Gorilla. McGard locks tend to strip as I've heard.

The claim that bolts from reputable manufacturers such as McGard are not as strong is a myth. The average wheel bolt is secured under 150 ft lbs of torque. This is not extremely high stress for a bolt of this diameter. Therefore I do not understand why the "aftermarket" bolt would not be up to OEM specs. Yes, potentially non-reputable manufacturers may not be up to OEM specs but really how hard (expensive) is it to be up to OEM specs. Quality would be based on material properties and threading.

Regardless of lock bolts or regular bolts, you should occasionally check the torque of your bolts. Since our cars run on 5 bolts then the load is distributed over 5 bolts. For liability reasons, wheel lock manufacturers tell you to only use 1 per wheel. ANY bolt can loosen including OEM bolts (read the small print from any tire place after they install your wheels, they'll tell you to re-check & re-torque your bolts after a few hundred miles).

Henry47, no offense to your friend but if he didn't see that he was missing a wheel nut AND he was the one who replaced them all with wheel locks, then he may not be very mechanically-inclined (didn't torque high enough, didn't re-check after a few hundred miles of driving, etc.).

As long as torque is occasionally checked, I would not fear the failure of a bolt from McGard (I have personally always used McGard, 1 per wheel so I don't know about Gorilla).

As for using 5 wheel locks on 1 wheel...this would be interesting keeping 5 locks with you :D. Yes it's 5 times the trouble for a thief but also for you whenever you need to remove the wheel (roadside or rotation). This decision is up to you. It can be safely done but as you already said, if someone really wants 'em...they'll get 'em.

Yes, the Mercede's wheel lock is made by McGard. Don't you think if their bolts were not up to Mercede's spec they won't use them? :rolleyes:

[J Irwan]

Originally posted by Henry47
if you're going to use wheel locks, only use ONE set. Any more than that and you're taking a risk that could be avoided. Wheel locks are not made to OEM specifications and are not as strong as OEM. Putting more than one set of locks on one wheel might lead to them getting loose. I've seen it happen before on my friends civic. He replaced ALL his lugs with locks and came to me "henry, theres something wrong with my wheels" so i jacked up his car and his locks were so loose his wheel was almost falling off his car. It turned out that one of them fell off and the three were DANGEROUSLY loose. That's a risk I don't think you should take. Shanta, you are correct if the thieves really want your wheels, they'll get them. Why risk your own safety to slow them down 30 more seconds? BTW, I've heard nothing but good stories about Gorilla. McGard locks tend to strip as I've heard.


just FYI

OEM wheels locks are made by McGard..

The thing about wheel looks never over-tightened it
I have seen many time when people over tightened it, the wheel looks will be stripped off (a lit easier on the McGard since their groove-pattern not deep enough)..


For people who like to step on the lug-bolt wrench to tighten the wheel, DON'T
you'll screw up your wheel locks for sure..

Actually I like the McGard wheel lock for BMW , it has very interesting bolt-head shape.. (unlike the one for Mercedes)

For BMW available in this type
http://www.bavauto.com/assets/imglib500/wl3.jpg


This is another type that also available for BMW as well, but as far as I know this is the only head-pattern available for Mercedes from McGard
http://www.bavauto.com/assets/imglib500/3613_1050.jpg

Hope this helps..


Regardz,

J Irwan

[Blue Devil]

Oh yeah 1 more thing...

As for threads stripping, there are so many other factors such as over-torque, dirt in the thread, not aligning the thread properly, etc.

I'm on my sixth set of McGard (different vehicles) and I do all my own work. Never had a problem nor have I heard from any of my friends who mostly use McGard too.

Stay away from places which use air-guns (air compressed torque wrench). It won't take much to strip your bolt (aftermarket or OEM).

Don't mean to be contrary but I just want to share my experience and knowledge about wheel locks so shanta can protect her new wheels.

[shanta]

Originally posted by J Irwan
For BMW available in this type
http://www.bavauto.com/assets/imglib500/wl3.jpg


That is what the Gorilla Locks look like that I am currently using. A gator grip can easily be used to take those puppies off. The McGard is completely round, so a gator grip cannot grip it. I use the McGard on my E420 with no problems and no stripping, so I may use those instead of the Gorilla Locks. I am still undecided as to which one is truly better.

[Fanatic]

Originally posted by Blue Devil
The claim that bolts from reputable manufacturers such as McGard are not as strong is a myth. The average wheel bolt is secured under 150 ft lbs of torque. This is not extremely high stress for a bolt of this diameter. Therefore I do not understand why the "aftermarket" bolt would not be up to OEM specs. Yes, potentially non-reputable manufacturers may not be up to OEM specs but really how hard (expensive) is it to be up to OEM specs. Quality would be based on material properties and threading.
.
.
.
Yes, the Mercede's wheel lock is made by McGard. Don't you think if their bolts were not up to Mercede's spec they won't use them? :rolleyes:

:werd:
I asked the same question about 6 months ago and only got hearsay, rumors and stories about a friend of a friend of a friend about why not to use more than one lock per wheel. These are not shady, 'out of their garage' business. They spend money on R&D and Engineering to calculate bolt strengths, shear forces, tensile strengths, etc.

I use the McGard's not becuase they mfg for Mercedes (didn't know that at the time) but for the high quality products that they make. I always re-check the torque after 300 miles when I take a wheel off or if the dealer does any work. I've never had a problem or have found that the bolts have come loose on me. Maybe I'm just lucky... or not. I don't thnk that I would use 5 different locks (pain in the arse to figure out the key to lock combination) but I don't think there should be a problem with 2 locks.


Shanta,
My McGards look just like the ones J Irwan posted. Ultimately it is up to you on what you feel comfortable with. If the theives really want it they may take the entire car. See post on what happened to vcci from MercedesShop. :( (BTW gorgeous wheels :D )

[J Irwan]

Shanta

I don't think you could use any type of vise grip tool to open this bolt.

Especially when they are torque to 80lb-ft


Btw do you have a pic of gator grip..? ( I don't think I've seen one yet)..

BTW I have used The Gorilla Lock and McGard (MB OEM) with no problem so far. (I always switch to winter wheel and winter tires on both my BMW and MB, so you could imagine how often I dismount and re-mount my wheel, not to mention I often/occasiobnally take my wheel off, and wash the back of it off from the brake dusts )

Regardz,


J Irwan

[shanta]

Yeah, I am using the McGard's on my 420 w/o problems for like 4 years. The Gorilla's are new to me, and I am just trying to get used to them. This is all the shop had at the time for my E500. I was toying around with getting McGuard's for the E500, because I like them better, and have had success with them, but the shop advised against them because of stripping issues.

I don't have a pic of the gator grip, but it is "supposed" to be made to grip anything. Do a search on the net, I am sure you will find a pic of one.

Thanks for all the info.

[J Irwan]

Shanta

I found the pic of the gator-grip socket..

oh boy, I have seen those couple of time, but I just don't know what they called it :P


btw here is the pic

http://store4.yimg.com/I/i-city_1715_446307


[edit: btw I still doubt it will be able to grip the gorilla locks :)]
Regardz,

J Irwan

[Henry47]

I asked the tech at TWS if he thought the Gator grip would be able to take off a lock and he said that he tried it (because so many people lose their locks) and he said it's pretty difficult. But then again I've seen wheel shops with the proper tools take off locks within 2 minutes. If you want to roll on wheels w/ more than 1 lock then I won't be stopping you, but personally I wouldn't take the risk. If they want the wheels, take it. I knew that if i were a thief and you had 3 different locks on one wheel, i'd get pissed and might even do damage to your car AS i steal your rims. But hey, that's just me.

[Blue Devil]

shanta,

One thing about those Eurolocks and aftermarket wheels...

The 500 uses those bolts with "faux" heads (not sure if other models have this too). In other words the seat of the bolt is much farther into the wheel face than the actual head which is almost flush with the wheel face. The bolt has two sections, a seat and then the head.

Most aftermarket wheels will require aftermarket bolts which will result in the head of the bolt to be buried into the bolt hole of the wheel (no faux head). This is good for protecting against theft BUT from the pictures of the Eurolock...the key is too short to reach.

This could be completely a non-issue on your iForges but I've had many aftermarket wheels and bolts which sat very deep in the bolt hole so I can't see this key reaching the Eurolock.

[Blue Devil]

Originally posted by Henry47
I asked the tech at TWS if he thought the Gator grip would be able to take off a lock and he said that he tried it (because so many people lose their locks) and he said it's pretty difficult. But then again I've seen wheel shops with the proper tools take off locks within 2 minutes. If you want to roll on wheels w/ more than 1 lock then I won't be stopping you, but personally I wouldn't take the risk. If they want the wheels, take it. I knew that if i were a thief and you had 3 different locks on one wheel, i'd get pissed and might even do damage to your car AS i steal your rims. But hey, that's just me.

A tech doesn't want to damage his tools so they use tools like the Gator Grip. A thief on the other hand...(I don't want to educate potential thieves but this is commonly known already)

They get a handful of sockets which are 1 size smaller than your lock bolt or nut. In the case of the Gorilla, 1 size smaller than the keyed portion of the bolt head. Then they hammer the smaller sized socket into the lock. Therefore it will "jam" hard enough so that they can un-torque your wheel lock.

Where there's a will there's a way.

[yvrbenz]

first of all, you should NEVER use an impact gun to install and torque wheel bolts/nuts. it's FAR too easy to strip them. I know, i know. there are those of you who say "My shop has never had a problem with stripping ky wheel bolts/nuts." Fine, do you REALLY want to take the chance? Furthermore, have you ever tried to take off a wheel that's had the nuts/bolts reefed on with an impact gun at night by the side of the road with nothing but the wheel wrench in your trunk?

That being said, the issue about wheel lock being weaker is, in my opinion dependant on the manufacturer and design of the lock. I think the MAIN reason they tell you not to use more than one lock per wheel is for the following reasons:

1) if you have 2 different keys you have to lose, you increase the risk of losing one.

2) it's not so much that wheel locks are weaker as that you can't necessarily tighten them as much as regular wheel bolts because many wheel locks have been designed in such a way that you cannot exert the same amount of torque to the key/lock without risking some damage.

Take McGuards for example. by having an additional inch or so (the key) in between the bolt and the wheel wrench you increase the amount of leverage (and therefore torque) that can be applied to the bolt in the WRONG plane. it's a little harder to controll and therefore you run a greater risk of damaging the pattern in the bolt or on the key.

now look at the way they're designed. They require a specific pattern to be cut into the key so that they will fit into the bolt. look at how narrow that pattern is and how shallow the pattern in the bolt head is. you may be able to get it on really tight, but as we all know, it can be a B**** to get them off because the keys can sometimes slip out of the lock.

Now, imagine that you're trying to handle the key AND the wrench and you're trying to uncork a bolt that some jackass has wound on with an impact gun. we've all had to try and loosen an obscenely tight wheel bolt at one time or another, i'm sure. unless you have someone around who's willing to risk some broken fingers, you're not going to be able to keep the key and tire iron in place while reefing on it to try and loosen it.

Not fun. or, for that matter, safe.

FWIW i've lost a mcguard key before and i've managed to get the lock off with a 12-point deep socket, a hammer and a breaker-bar . mind you, it took me 4 sockets (couldn't get it off the lock afterwards) and about 90 minutes. not to mention a hell of a lot of noise and swearing.

the bottom line is that if they want your wheels (or for that matter your car) badly enough, they'll find a way to get them. all you can do is make it difficult for the less determined thieves and perhaps get them to move on to the car in the next parking stall without the wheel locks (or alarm or steering lock)

[shanta]

First off when I metioned using more then one wheel lock bolt, I was talking about them all having the same key (this is possible).

Second off that was only talk, so kill it with a skillet please!!!

Lastly, I already have wheel locks and they are not from any of the companies I posted, and I am completely happy.

Thanks everyone for the information.

[vader13]

I just put a set of Brabus wheel locks on, They are nice!

[Blue Devil]

Originally posted by shanta
First off when I metioned using more then one wheel lock bolt, I was talking about them all having the same key (this is possible).

Second off that was only talk, so kill it with a skillet please!!!

Lastly, I already have wheel locks and they are not from any of the companies I posted, and I am completely happy.

Thanks everyone for the information.

Where are the pix of the iForged on the E?

[shanta]

Originally posted by Blue Devil
Where are the pix of the iForged on the E?

those are c-kret

[yvrbenz]

Originally posted by shanta


Second off that was only talk, so kill it with a skillet please!!!



fine, i'll endeavour to keep any possibly relevant information to myself from now on in order not to piss anyone off anymore.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[shanta]

Originally posted by yvrbenz
fine, i'll endeavour to keep any possibly relevant information to myself from now on in order not to piss anyone off anymore.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

It is not about pissing people off. People were arguing a point that I wasn't serious about, and the whole conversation started focusing on this and not what I really wanted to know, which is, who makes the best locks.

[run.exe]

I use AMG locking lugs...

:cool: